Genghis (Chingis) Khan, Mongol Emperor ~ and The Bible: A Comparison of Morality

85

By Trish_M

The History of Genghis Khan, Mongolian Hero

Who Was Genghis (or Chingis) Khan?

Temujin, the boy who would become Chingis Khan ~ legendary Mongolian Khan; the great Mongolian Conqueror ~ was born in or around the 1160s, the son of Yesugai, tribal Mongol leader of the 'Kiyats', and his wife Ho'elun. Both of his parents were high status individuals, from leading tribal families.

The Mongols led a nomadic life, living in tent-like 'gers' (or 'yurts') and travelling on ponies.

When Temujin was around nine years old, his father found a ten-year-old bride for him ~ Borte ~ from amongst his maternal cousins. He would live with his betrothed's family until he could marry, at age 12. Arranged marriages were allegiences ~ very necessary in times of almost continuous tribal warfare.

Very shortly thereafter, on the return journey, Yesugai ba'atur, Temujin's father, was murdered ~ poisoned by a rival tribe. Temuijin was considered too young to inherit leadership of the Kiyat people, so he and his family were rejected and left unprotected, poor and hungry.

1) Orkhon Valley, Mongolia. 2) 'Ger' or 'Yurt'

Mongolia: Orkhon Valley.  See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Harhorin.jpg
See all 33 photos
Mongolia: Orkhon Valley. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Harhorin.jpg
Source: Wikimedia Commons / Frithjof Spangenberg
'Yurt with the en:Gurvansaikhan Mountains behind, part of en:Gobi Gurvansaikhan National Park'. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gurvger.jpg
'Yurt with the en:Gurvansaikhan Mountains behind, part of en:Gobi Gurvansaikhan National Park'. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gurvger.jpg
Source: Wikimedia Commons / Adagio

Temujin is Proclaimed 'Genghis Khan' in 1206 - Genghis Khan Mongolian King of Kings

Genghis Khan's enthronement  See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Genghis_Khan%27s_enthronement_in_1206.jpg
Genghis Khan's enthronement See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Genghis_Khan%27s_enthronement_in_1206.jpg
Source: Wikimedia Commons / Work circa 1430

'Secret History Of The Mongols' / 'The Mongols'

Secret History Of The Mongols
Amazon Price: $19.95
The Mongols (The Peoples of Europe)
Amazon Price: $23.09
List Price: $36.95

Book: 'The Mongols in History' - By Bertold Spuler

Front Cover - Amazon
Front Cover - Amazon

History: Genghis Khan of the Mongols Nation

But Temujin was couragous, ambitious and intelligent. By the age of 20, after marrying Borte, killing his half-brother in a dispute, escaping prison after being captured, and generally showing his strength, ability and fighting worth, he managed to take back leadership of the Kiyats.

His military prowess resulted in him subduing the enemies within his tribe ~ as well as those without.

He gradually overwhelmed more and more local tribes, to form a ' Mongol confederacy'. In the year 1206, this united tribal group acknowledged Temujin as their 'Universal Ruler' ~ their 'Genghis Khan' / 'Chingis Khan'.

Chingis Khan was a very able leader and a gifted planner of battles. For thirty years he carried out his campaigns and, by the end of his life, he had subdued and united twelve million square miles of land with its peoples. This had meant much bloodshed, when whole cities were destroyed, but this was the way life was led in that time and place.

Tribal lords wanted power and control. It was a time of cruelty, bloodshed and battle. But, once under the rule of Chingis Khan, it was also a time of settled order.

The tribal battles and bloodshed ~ of which Chingis was, of course, a part ~ came to an end once he took control. He was not just an able soldier, he was also an able ruler.

Temujin ~ Chingis, or Genghis, Khan ~ had been aware of the precarious and dangerous nature of Mongol life, at least since the death of his father, when he and his family were also left to die ~ by their own people.

Certainly he knew it by the time his best friend ~ indeed, his 'blood-brother, Jamuka ~ had become his chief enemy, had captured some of his generals and then had boiled them alive!

This knowledge was re-inforced when his young wife had been kidnapped, carried off and probably raped. Violence breeds violence ~ and a desire for revenge.

Temujin may have appeared to have been cruel, but he was a man of his time ~ and a far more able and successful one than any of either his allies or his enemies.

The Mongolian Conqueror, the Emperor Temujin ~ the 'Genghis Khan' ~ died in 1227. His burial place remains unknown.

Genghis Khan History

Temujin - Front Cover (Amazon)
Temujin - Front Cover (Amazon)

What Does Genghis Khan Have To Do with the Bible?

Is Genghis Khan in the Bible?

No Genghis cannot be found within the pages of the Bible ~ and yet ...

When I was reading some Biblical quotes, they suddenly reminded me of my reading about Genghis Khan. This surprised me, and I decided to check the subject out.

This article is the result of my findings.

(Quotes have been credited. Article Copyright Tricia Mason. All Rights reserved.)


Chingis Khan: 'Rule .. by .. Happiness'

The Holy Bible

The Bible - Ravished and Kidnapped Girls

Young girls kidnappped and raped?

In the Bible?

On the orders of God?!

* * *

The Bible is supposed to be the word of God ~ either inspired, or even dictated, by 'Him'.

The God of the Bible is worshipped.

There are hymns, where it is chanted that 'God is love'.

The Bible should not condone the kidnap and rape of girls and women,

... should it?

~ Yet it does!

Bible: Women Taken 'In Broad Daylight'

Have we fully comprehended Judges 21?

The Israelites decided that a fitting punishment, for not attending their assembly, was to stab to death an entire community.

Consider ~ they took swords to everyone; every man, woman and child. This would include pregnant women, tiny babies, toddlers, children, young couples, elderly people, the sick, every single person!

But no! Not every single person. All of the innocent young virgin girls were left alive, watching this massacre happen before their very eyes. Their mothers, their baby sisters, their grandparents ~ all slit open with a sword. Their fathers and brothers would be trying to save them, when they, too, were slaughtered.

After witnessing the carnage, the girls were dragged from the corpses of their loved-ones and forcibly taken away and given to strange men, to be raped!

But there were not enough girls to satisfy all of the Benjaminite men.

So, those who had no woman to rape, went and hid in the bushes until some girls came past. They then ambushed them and kidnapped them for their own use.

There were marriages, it seems, but did the traumatised girls have any say in the matter? ~ No!

This is in God's book; this was carried out by God's people; this was done in God's name.


Judges 21: Girls Kidnapped

The Benjaminites had become separate from the other tribes of Israel, and the others had vowed never to allow their daughters to marry a Benjaminite.

They also vowed that any who did not assemble before the Lord, at their special tribal meetings, should be killed. They realised, on the occasion described in this story, that no-one from Jabesh Gilead was present.

So the Israelites sent 12,000 of the bravest men to Jabesh Gilead, with instructions to kill everyone there ~ men, women and children, except for the virgin girls.

"10. So the assembly sent twelve thousand fighting men with instructions to go to Jabesh Gilead and put to the sword those living there, including the women and children. 11. This is what you are to do, they said. Kill every male and every woman who is not a virgin." ~ 'Holy Bible' ~ NIV

In Jabeshgilead, four hundred young virgins were discovered ~ and they were brought back to camp.

Then the tribes in question made peace with the Benjaminites, who joined them and were given the kidnapped girls as a gift ~ but there were not enough girls to go round all of the men.

The elders wondered how they might find some more girls to give to the Benjaminite men, because their own women had been wiped out, and the Benjaminites needed to produce heirs. (They had sworn not to give them their own daughters).

Then they rememberered that there was soon going to be an annual feast to God, in Shiloh, and, if the Benjaminites hid in the vineyards, until the girls came along the road, they could each jump out and kidnap one of the girls, and take her home to make her his wife.

When the brothers and fathers complained, the others would put it right with them.

Ghengis Khan: 'My Calling is High'

Yuan Emperor Album - 14th Century Portrait of Genghis Khan (Temujin)

Public Domain. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:YuanEmperorAlbumGenghisPortrait.jpg
Public Domain. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:YuanEmperorAlbumGenghisPortrait.jpg
Source: Wikimedia Commons

What did Genghis Khan say about Kidnap and Rape?


What did the evil Genghis Khan say about kidnapping and raping women?

Are his attitudes more, or less, 'moral' than those found in the Holy Bible?

~ ~ ~

After rescuing his own young wife, who had been carried off and raped, he announced specific laws on this subject:

These laws forbade both the kidnapping of women and the selling of woman into marriage.

Thus, women could not, legally, be raped ~ either as a result of kidnap, or of forced marriage.

Rape and kidnap were actively encouraged by certain Bible stories ~ supposedly condoned by God, himself!

So, who is the more moral leader?

Genghis Khan: Pleasure in Conquering

Genghis Khan Books: 'The Secret History of the Mongols'

Secret History of the Mongols - Front Cover (Amazon)
Secret History of the Mongols - Front Cover (Amazon)

The Cruelty of the Khan

There are many stories about Genghis Khan and the cruelty of his army.

Here is one, which I found on the website 'anusha.com' ...

In 1221, when Genghis and his men were riding across the lands of Central Asia, they came across a citadel, built high on a hill. It was inhabited by an Afghan tribe. These were the people of the town of Bamiyan.

When this tribe refused to surrender to the Khan, he first had their water supply cut off, and then killed everyone in the fort ~ the tribal leader and every man, woman and child; not a soul was left alive ~ not even the animals.


An alternative version is found on 'mainlesson.com' ...

Here, Chingis's grandson is mortally wounded by an arrow and the boy's mother insists that everyone in the town should be killed, particularly the children ~ even the unborn babies ~ since she had lost her own child.

http://www.anusha.com/hazaras.htm


http://www.mainlesson.com/display.php?author=abbott&book=genghis&story=victorious

Map of Genghis Khan's Empire at His death

released into the public domain by its author, Postmann Michael. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Genghis_khan_empire_at_his_death.png
released into the public domain by its author, Postmann Michael. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Genghis_khan_empire_at_his_death.png
Source: Wikimedia Commons / Postmann Michael.

Genghis Khan - Mongol Emperor; Universal King

Genghis Khan - Battle of the Indus

"History of Abul-Khayr Khan" by  ~. Institute of Oriental Studies, Academy of Sciences of Uzbekistan. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:During_the_battle_of_Indus.jpg
"History of Abul-Khayr Khan" by ~. Institute of Oriental Studies, Academy of Sciences of Uzbekistan. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:During_the_battle_of_Indus.jpg
Source: Wikimedia Commons / Mas'ud b. Osmani Kuhistan

Murder of every man, woman and child

The thought of Genghis Khan and his armies, entering settlements, and destroying every living soul is unbelievably horrific. It really is!

But, is it very different from the stories we read in the Bible?

At Baniyan, Chingis Khan and his men apparently killed every single person and animal in the citadel, regardless of age or status.

But, then, at Jabesh Gilead, the Israelites 'put to the sword all those living there, including the women and children ...every male and every woman who is not a virgin'. The Bible proudly tells us so.

The website 'mainlesson.com' claims that, when the Mongols attacked and destroyed towns, the young women were usually captured and given to the men, as spoils of war.

This goes against Genghis Khan's rules about the treatment of women, but, even if true, it is only the equivalent of what is described in the Bible.

Bible: 'Infants dashed to pieces ..'

Genghis / Chingis Khan with Three of his Four Sons

ca. 1430 ~ See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Genghis_Khan_and_three_of_his_four_sons.jpg
ca. 1430 ~ See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Genghis_Khan_and_three_of_his_four_sons.jpg
Source: Wikimedia Commons / Sayf al-vhid et al.

Even the Animals!

When I read that the Mongols killed everyone in the citadel of Baniyam ~ the tribal leader and every man, woman and child, and even the animals ~ it reminded me of another story that I had heard!

It is a story found in the Bible ~ in 1 Samuel 15.

Here, Samuel tells Saul that God is going to punish the Amalekites, and that he will use Saul to do this. Saul is told: "Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys." (NIV)

So Saul attacked the Amalekites He took their king alive, but totally destroyed all of his people with the sword. He also spared the best of the sheep and cattle. God was not pleased. Samuel asked Saul: "Why did you not obey the LORD? Why did you pounce on the plunder?" God was angry, not because the suckling babies had been ripped apart with a sword, but because some animals had been left alive!

'The Flail od God'

'Holy Bible'

New King James Version Holy Bible (Burgundy)
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Holy Bible Text Edition NLT (Bible Nlt)
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Zondervan NIV Study Bible
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Peaceful Promises

When Chingis Khan was at war with the Khwarezmians, he promised that towns which surrendered would be spared, but those which resisted, would be annihilated.

Thus he made clear that his power had to be acknowledged as supreme and that, provided his supremacy was acknowledged, his take-over could be peaceful.

He usually kept his word. Only where there was resistance, or where his own people were hurt, did he seek revenge.

*

But isn't this similar to Deuteronomy 20:10-14?

"When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labour and shall work for you. If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. When the LORD your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the LORD your God gives you from your enemies" (NIV ~ UK)

Note, once again, that the women and children are classed as 'plunder' and that they are given, by God, to the armed men, for their own use. This would have included slavery and rape.

Bible: Kidnap the Virgin Girls. Destroy the Suckling Babies

Ghengis Khan Temujin

Temujin - Front Cover
Temujin - Front Cover

Cruel at times.

Yes, the Chingis Khan and the Mongols could be brutal ~ but so could others. Remember, his father was murdered, when he was just a child; his mother was abandoned, by their own tribe, and left to fend for herself and her childen, when she was widowed; his wife was kidnapped and raped, when they were teenagers; his best friend betrayed him, and murdered his men, in a horrendously brutal fashion. Temujin became hard and cruel at times, but life was hard and cruel at times.

*

And the Bible is cruel at times.

In the Bible, God is described as very cruel at times. This is because, as with the Mongols and their enemies, the Bible contains stories of ancient, unciivilised tribes. These were people for whom violence was a way of life. It was a case of kill or capture your enemies and rivals, before they killed or captured you. There was rivalry over power, land, food, women to produce heirs, etc, etc.

Women left with a tribe could increase their number; women kidnapped from a tribe could increase your number. That is why they were taken. The morality of murder and rape did not come into it, where enemies were concerned ~ and any rival was a potential enemy.

Saul's Army Killed The Children and Babies of Amalek

Front Cover (Amazon)
Front Cover (Amazon)

Books: God's killings in the Bible

Saul and the Amalekites
Sentinel Recordings
Amazon Price: $0.99
Drunk With Blood: God's killings in the Bible
Steve Wells
Amazon Price: $13.85
List Price: $16.95

Bible Stories About God?

No!

These were not stories about God; they were stories of how a belief in God could give a people confidence, unity, strength and power. The Israelites believed that God was on their side ~ that they were his chosen people.

This does not mean that they were God's chosen people; it simply means that they believed it and that it benefiited them to do so.

Their leaders may or may not have believed, but were probably too superstitious to doubt. Most tribes would have had their gods and goddesses ~ their 'good luck' amulets ~ and the Israelites were no different.

There is no good reason to believe that the Israelites knew anything about God, or the existence of God ~ or that their Scriptures contained (or contain) any spiritual truth. It is simply a set of beliefs and ideas and stories that an ancient tribe had evolved

Book: 'Drunk With Blood: God's killings in the Bible'

Amazon: Front Cover
Amazon: Front Cover

Quotes from Chingis Khan

"I will rule them by fixed laws, that rest and happiness shall prevail in the world."
*
"With Heaven's aid I have conquered .. a huge empire.
*
"All who surrender will be spared; whoever does not surrender but opposed with struggle and dissension, shall be annihilated."
*
"As my calling is high, the obligations incumbent upon me are also heavy; and I fear that in my ruling there may be something wanting"
*
"The pleasure and joy of man lies in treading down the rebel and conquering the enemy .."
*
"I am the Flail of God. If you had not committed great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon You."
*
"Heaven has appointed me to rule all the nations, for hitherto there has been no order upon the steppes."
*
"A man's greatest work is to break his enemies, to drive them before him ... to hear the weeping of those who cherished them."
*
"Be of one mind and one faith, that you may conquer your enemies and lead long and happy lives."
*

Spirituality and Genghis Khan

Like the Israelites, the Mongols would have had their religious beliefs and superstitions.

Their religious practices might be termed 'shamanism', but they also belived in a celestial supreme god ~ 'Mongke Koko Tengri'.

Their shaman may have helped them in battle, or helped them to hunt food, for example.

Interestingly, when Temujin became Chingis Khan, he not only took on the role of an earthly leader, but also of a spiritual leader.

As 'universal ruler', he also became the representative on Earth of 'the 'Eternal Blue Sky' ~ 'Mongke Koko Tengri'. In effect, he became divine, and his destiny was to govern the entire world.

Religious zeal and self belief, encouraged by his 'divinity' and his destiny, may have helped Chingis Khan to realise so much of his success.

The website 'biography.com' states that: 'Religious tolerance was practiced in the Mongol Empire, but to defy the Great Khan was equal to defying the will of God'. It goes on to say that Chingis Khan claimed: "I am the flail of God. If you had not committed great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you."'

We can see a correspondence, here, with the Bible. The Israelites believed that they were God's chosen people and, in a way, so did the Mongols. Indeed, there is something almost Messianic about Chingis Khan's belief that he is the 'Flail of God'. Comparisons could be drawn with some statements credited to Jesus.

It was considered that 'To defy the Great Khan was equal to defying the will of God' ~ and, again, something similar could be said about Jesus. He, too, was considered to be divine: God incarnate, or the representative of God on Earth.

Visions of God

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sistine_Chapel_ceiling
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sistine_Chapel_ceiling
Source: Wikimedia Commons / Michelangelo Buonarroti

Books: Genghis Khan and the Mongols

Secret History of the Mongols: The Origin of Chingis Khan
Amazon Price: $28.15
List Price: $30.99
Genghis Khan: Life, Death, and Resurrection
Amazon Price: $6.99
List Price: $21.99
Swords from the East
Amazon Price: $18.93
List Price: $24.95
The Blue Wolf: A Novel of the Life of Chinggis Khan (Weatherhead Books on Asia)
Amazon Price: $15.75
List Price: $35.00
Genghis Khan (Mc Classic Illustrated Biography) (Marshall Cavendish Classics Illustrated Biography)
Amazon Price: $14.43
List Price: $19.99

The Mongols Books

The Mongol Art of War
Amazon Price: $19.47
List Price: $29.95
Storm from the East: From Genghis Khan to Khubilai Khan
Amazon Price: $212.06
Temujin
Amazon Price: $6.06
List Price: $29.99
Genghis Khan: Makers of History Series  Illustrated Edition
Amazon Price: $9.99
Genghis Khan and the Making of the Modern World
Amazon Price: $7.94
List Price: $15.00
The Rise and Fall of the Second Largest Empire in History: How Genghis Khan's Mongols Almost Conquered the World
Amazon Price: $3.99
List Price: $19.99

Laud and Condemnation

God, as described in the Bible, can be cruel and vengeful ~ as well as, sometimes, fair.

Chingis Khan, as described in many history books, can be cruel and vengeful ~ as well as, sometimes, fair.

God, as described in the Bible, is lauded.

Chingis Khan is abhored and condemned for his evil cruelty.

There are many examples of Chingis Khan's cruelty that I have not touched upon here, but, equally, there are many examples of God's supposed cruelty that I have not touched upon, either.

I think that the Mongols and the Israelites were tribal peoples of their time and place. It is difficult to judge them, because they lived according to their culture, knowledge, beliefs and experiences.

Both believed that they were favoured by God on High. We might condemn a lot of their behaviour, today, but, realistically, it is too late to use hindsight now.

What we can do, though, is acknowledge that the stories, which they claimed were about 'God', were really tales of folklore. God did not kill Amalekite babies, or encourage rape, or any of the other horrors ascribed to him. This is mythology.

I am agnostic. I have no idea whether or not there is some kind of power behind the universe, which we might, possibly, label 'God'. But if there is, I am convinced that s/he would not be the petty, cruel and vengeful being, described in the Hebrew Scriptures / Old Testament.

However, if God were, indeed, like that, then I would have to question why anyone would praise him, and call him a good and loving father. After all, Christians don't heap praise on Chingis Khan ~ they are often the first to criticise and condemn him. Yet his actions are similar to those of the God of the Bible.

Furthermore, many Christians do actually believe that God is, indeed, like that ~ yet still they worship and praise him, and try to convert others to their belief that this is truth.

Many believe that God really did slaughter babies, children, elderly, sickly, etc, etc, and that he encouraged kidnap, slavery and rape. And they seem to believe that he was right to do so!

Michelangelo's Vision of God - Sistine Chapel

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sistine_Chapel_ceiling
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sistine_Chapel_ceiling
Source: Wikimedia Commons / Michelangelo

Great Khan's Coin Minted Afghanistan - AD 1221

Mongol ~ Great Khan's coin ~ minted at Balk Afghanistan ~ AH 618 ~ AD 1221. 'I, the copyright holder of this work, release this work into the public domain.' ~See:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mongol_Great_Khans_coin_minted_at_Balk_Afghanistan_AH
Mongol ~ Great Khan's coin ~ minted at Balk Afghanistan ~ AH 618 ~ AD 1221. 'I, the copyright holder of this work, release this work into the public domain.' ~See:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mongol_Great_Khans_coin_minted_at_Balk_Afghanistan_AH
Source: Wikimedia Commons / PHGCOM

Genghis Khan and The Bible - Conclusion

Genghis Khan and God ~ as described in the 'Old Testament', that is ~ morally comparible?

Or not?

Who was the more moral of these two characters, as described by stories and histories?

Since we can show that Chingis Khan carried out similar atrocities to those described in the Bible, and since Christians condemn Chingis Khan, specifically because of those atrocities, then it is not morally wrong for said Christians to condone the cruel behaviour of God, as described in the Bible?

At least Chingis Khan condemned the kidnap, rape and forced marriage of women and girls!

The Bible does not!

'God' and Genghis - morally comparible?

Mongols - Books: Spuler and Phillips

Front Covers
Front Covers

Books: Genghis and the Mongols - Novels

Dominion: Dawn of the Mongol Empire
Amazon Price: $12.43
List Price: $15.95
Ascent: The Rise of Chinggis Khan (Heaven's Favorite)
Amazon Price: $10.60
List Price: $15.95
Genghis: Birth of an Empire: A Novel
Amazon Price: $8.48
List Price: $16.00
Genghis: Lords of the Bow: A Novel
Amazon Price: $8.05
List Price: $16.00
Genghis: Bones of the Hills: A Novel
Amazon Price: $6.89
List Price: $16.00

Queens After Genghis

The Secret History of the Mongol Queens: How the Daughters of Genghis Khan Rescued His Empire
From 'Product Description' on Amazon ... 'The Mongol queens of the thirteenth century ruled the largest empire the world has ever known. ..... 'The queens of the Silk Route turned their father’s conquests into the world’s first truly international empire .... 'After Genghis Khan’s death .. conflicts erupted ... what began as a war between powerful women soon became a war against women ... even their names were erased from the historical record..'
Amazon Price: $15.00

Genghis Khan movies: Mongols movie / Mongols film / Mongols DVD

Biography - Genghis Khan: Terror and Conquest
1995. At 2nd May 2012: six Amazon customer reviews. Average score: 2.3 out of 5 stars. Two customers scored it 5 out of 5 stars. Four scored it just 1 out of 5 stars. The feneral verdict seems to be 'lazy' and 'inaccurate' though one person called it 'excellent'.
Amazon Price: $4.65
List Price: $24.95
The Secrets of Genghis Khan
2006. Maury Kravitz leads a team across the Mongolia steppe in search of the lost burial-place of Genghis Khan. At 2nd May 2012, one Amazon customer review: 3 out of 5 stars.
Amazon Price: $12.63
List Price: $19.98
Genghis Khan
DVD released: 2008. At 2nd May 2012: four Amazon customer reviews. Three gave it 5 out of 5 stars. One gave it 3 out of 5 stars. Average: 4.5 out of 5 stars.
Amazon Price: $12.99
List Price: $19.99
By the Will of Genghis Khan
2010 ~ Language: Russian with English subtitles. At 2nd May 2012, two Amazon customer reviews; both gave it 4 out of 5 stars.
Amazon Price: $12.42
List Price: $24.95
Genghis Khan: To the Ends of the Earth and Sea
2008. Language: Japanese with English subtitles. Director: Shinichiro Sawai. At 2nd May 2012: Seventy-six Amazon customer reviews. Average result: 3.5 out of 5 stars. 18 customers gave it 5 out of 5 stars. 20 customers gave it 4 out of 5 stars. 24 customers gave it 3 out of 5 stars.
Amazon Price: $9.88
List Price: $24.98
Genghis Khan: To the Ends of the Earth & Sea - Special Edition [Blu-ray]
Language: Japanese with English subtitles. See above
Amazon Price: $11.10
List Price: $19.98

Mongols the movie: Mongols film / Mongols video / Mongols DVD

Mongol: The Rise of Genghis Khan
DVD. 2008.Language: Mongolian with English subtitles. At 2nd May 2012, one hundred and twenty-one Amazon customer reviews. Average score: 4.3 out of 5 stars. Sixty-nine reviewers gave it 5 stars.
Amazon Price: $4.98
List Price: $19.97
Mongol: The Rise of Genghis Khan [Blu-ray]
Starring: Tadanobu Asano. Directed by: Sergei Bodrov. See DVD description, above
Amazon Price: $7.79
List Price: $14.98
Mongol [Blu-ray]
'Mongol: The Rise to Power of Genghis Khan'. Starring: Tadanobu Asano and Honglei Sun. Directed by: Sergei Bodrov. DVD Released: 2008. At 2nd May 2012: No Amazon customer reviews. Blu-ray
Amazon Price: $16.55
Mongol
2007 Academy Award Nominee. Subtitles: English. At 2nd May 2012: No Amazon customer reviews.
Amazon Price: $19.99
The Conqueror
Starring John Wayne as Genghis Khan. At 2nd May 2012: Forty-nine Amazon customer reviews. Average result: 2.8 out of 5 stars.
Amazon Price: $58.89
List Price: $9.98
GENGHIS KHAN - Historical TV Series (10 DVD Set , IMPORT, ALL REGIONS)
At 2nd May 2012: two Amazon customer reviews. Both gave it 5 out of 5 stars. Quote from reviewers: '... the most accurate series ...'; '... will never be surpassed in its completeness, quality of production, and pure entertainment ...'
Amazon Price: $34.50
Genghis Khan
1965. Starring Omar Sharif and James Mason. At 2nd May 2012: eight Amazon customer reviews. Average result: 3.9 out of 5 stars.
Amazon Price: $14.66
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Comments

writeronline profile image

writeronline Level 7 Commenter 10 months ago

Another impressively detailed hub, clearly presented, and with an equally clearly-stated personal point of view. Just what I've come to expect from your work.

I'm amazed at your knowledge of the bible, given your agnostic philosophical view. I can't be bothered making the effort, because to me, all religions are about making it convenient for believers to behave as poorly as they like, under cover of the claim that god has given them the right. Often, in today's times, the same god. What?

Anyway, as long as you keep writing articles with positions and perspectives as clearly enunciated as this (and many of your others), I won't have to make the effort; I'll just keep learning from you.

I voted this Up, Useful and Awesome. Because it is.

Trish_M profile image

Trish_M Hub Author 10 months ago

Hello 'writeronline' :)

Thank you very much indeed for such kind and positive comments! They are much appreciated!

I have always had a passion for history ~ and the Bible seems to fit in well with that.

I have always enjoyed religious debate, too. Deciphering the Bible goes with the territory :)

recommend1 profile image

recommend1 10 months ago

Interesting and balanced commentary, I especially like the comparisons of like with like to illustrate better 'how it was' in different times.

Trish_M profile image

Trish_M Hub Author 10 months ago

Hello Recommend1 :)

Thank you for your comments ~ I'm glad that you enjoyed reading this!

graceomalley profile image

graceomalley Level 4 Commenter 10 months ago

Your detail is excellent here. I wish more practising Christians knew the Bible as well as you do - I think it would bring more balance to the faith & practise of Christianity. Yes, I am well aware of the violence in the OT, and yes, I am still a Christian - but all too many of my compatriots have white washed notions of the Bible. Formal teaching in the church turns a bit of a blind eye I'm afraid. Most of us human beings come from a violent past (I say most because anthropology does turn up a few primitive yet peaceful tribes of people - the exception to the rule), and we do better to face it.

Trish_M profile image

Trish_M Hub Author 10 months ago

Hello Grace :)

Thank you for reading!

And thanks for your very kind words. They are very much appreciated :)

I respect the right of anyone to believe as they wish, but I have to say that I find it hard to understand why Christians, who do know about the more unpleasant aspects of the Bible's version of God, still believe that Bible and still worship that God.

Perhaps you could enlighten me :)

Yes, you are right, much of the past is a violent place ~ as is much of the present. And, supposedly, this is all part of a loving God's creation.

As I indicated, this makes little sense to me, I'm afraid.

I do appreciate your reading this and giving your point of view. :)

graceomalley profile image

graceomalley Level 4 Commenter 10 months ago

Trish- I suppose I could write a book about that, why I believe. Why some believe in and experience God while others have no such experience is one of the greatest mysteries of the world to me. I personally don't think it is about education. Some families try very hard to teach children a certain faith with no success, others have great success.

The simplest answer to why I follow Jesus is personal experience. He came into my life at a time (14 years old) when I desparetely needed comfort and guidance, and He helped me when everyone else in my life had failed me. He has always helped and guided me, and I have the stable life that i have now because of His help. I'm the child of a severely mentally ill mother and a father who could probably be described as mentally ill post his Viet Nam experience. He never functioned after Viet Nam. Very few people who grew up in the circumstances i did (yes, my mother actually raised me, though her illness was so severe that she had bouts of not remembering she had a child) are functional people. This is sadly just a fact. I suppose I could say I love Jesus as one would love a rescuer. I'm loyal to Him the way I would be loyal to someone who swept in and airlifted me out of a war zone, and then adopted me and treated me as a beloved child.

I personally believe very few people become Christians because they read the entire bible and decide this is the greatest thing. I think many talk this way because it is encouraged and rewarded in the Christian community. I think most become attached to Jesus because they experience Him in some internal way. I wrote about my relationship to the bible in a hub called "The bible's place in my spiritual life." I personally think much of American church culture does not do a good job with the bible - few read it very much in spite of all that is said, and the average person is given few tools to make sense of it. These are ancient manuscripts, based on even more ancient oral traditions. I do think that these people were experiencing God, they also lived in a violent world we can hardly begin to understand. I can't imagine abandoning Jesus, who is my lifeblood, over this or that story in the Old Testament. If being a Christian were based on thinking the Bible should be perfectly understandable to humans no matter when or in what culture they live, I suppose Christianity would not make sense. But it is based on very different things for me.

Trish_M profile image

Trish_M Hub Author 10 months ago

Hello Grace

Thank you ~ I wasn't expecting anything quite so heartfelt and personal, and I can, indeed, understand your devotion to the belief system that 'saved' you.

I am sorry to have caused personal memories to be brought forth.

I know other people with similar beliefs, based on parallel experiences, and this is certainly a valid reason / explanation for being a Christian. :)

My Mum is a Christian, and simply does not believe that God annihilated Amalekite babies. However, many Christians do believe this, and do condone it ~ not as the work of a primitive tribe, but as the plan of the eternal, invisible, omnipotent, omnipresent God, of whom Jesus was the human incarnation.

As an agnostic, I don't know whether there is a God, but, if there is, then I don't believe it either.

Thanks again :)

graceomalley profile image

graceomalley Level 4 Commenter 10 months ago

I would be more along the lines of your Mum, and I think many believers are, but the stridently vocal among us drown out the more reasonable.

I personally think many who support the vengeful God who condones slaughter & rape -or sends people to do it- are emotionally disconnected people. They are fine to think this way about God because it's not real to them anyway. Some call it compartmentalized thinking. (They think they get it, but i don't think so.) Or maybe one could call it failure of imagination.

graceomalley profile image

graceomalley Level 4 Commenter 10 months ago

Trish - I don't tell my story indiscriminately. Some I have little doubt would be disrespectful enough to tell me my faith is just a symptom of trauma.

I admire you for being respectful of people from all belief systems. I try to be that way myself.

Trish_M profile image

Trish_M Hub Author 10 months ago

Hello again, Grace. :)

Thanks again for explaining your thoughts on this.

The 'compartmentalized thinking' theory is an interesting one. I have found that some Christians become changed people, when something that is in their belief system, but in an abstract way, is brought home to them and affects them personally. It is as if they view their one-time belief / opinion, truthfully, for the first time.

mib56789 profile image

mib56789 10 months ago

Hello! I saw one of your comments at another HUB writer's HUB (jvhirniak) and came over to see what kind of HUBs you publish. I've struck gold! That your brain can contain all of this information and you can express it so clearly to others. You have a beautiful mind. I'm going to review some more of your HUBs and start following you. Thank you for sharing.

Trish_M profile image

Trish_M Hub Author 10 months ago

Wow, mib56789, that's a great compliment ~ thank you very much! :)

Good to 'meet' you ~ I'm going to take a look at some of your hubs, now.

DomesticEngineers profile image

DomesticEngineers 7 months ago

I am doing my own research on the impact of "God's whip". At the moment I am reminded of how King David had to run from his predessor, King Saul. Just as Genghis Khan had to run into the woods with his family in his early life. Also it was the second and third generation that actually did the "conquering of the promised land" after Moses led them out of the land of the Egyptians. Just as the sons and the grandsons of Genghis Khan continued with the plans of their father, grandfather. Where the Mongols more ruthless? Or is the written word of the Bible been watered down with the passage of time? Who knows.

It is starting to look more exciting though. Thank you for the wake up.

Trish_M profile image

Trish_M Hub Author 7 months ago

Hi DomesticEngineers :)

You have added some very interesting observations! Thank you :)

These parallels are most intriguing!

I think that the Mongols were ruthless, but any more ruthless than other tribes?? Not sure.

Certainly there is plenty of ruthless behaviour in the Bible! :)

DomesticEngineers profile image

DomesticEngineers 7 months ago

Yes, there is more to the Old Testament then what Sunday School teachers try to describe.

stessily profile image

stessily Level 8 Commenter 7 months ago

Trish: You make interesting points. When I'm not puzzling over the unseen forces or apparent cruel unfairness in this world, in my softer moments, I tend towards the view expressed by graceomalley. Nevertheless, there are elements in the Bible which are unsettling, and I respect your gentle courage in tackling them.

You make interesting parallels which underscore the conundrum: The definition of evil often seems to shift with the perspective. What's not okay for Genghis is okay for others.

I have no answers for these puzzlements.

Your love of history really shines through this hub.

I saw a fascinating movie on Genghis a few years ago, "Mongol: The Rise of Genghis Khan." As a human being, he apparently cultivated incredible inner strength to overcome endless adversity in his youth.

I remember one late, insomniac night a while back flipping through the TV and coming across a laughably hideous film by Howard Hughes on Genghis with John Wayne horrendously miscast as Genghis. "Mongol" is probably much closer to the real man and also much more interesting.

Kind regards, Stessily

DomesticEngineers profile image

DomesticEngineers 7 months ago

I saw that movie too. I found it too be an interesting portrayal of a "mysterious" man. That movie is about 50 years old. Mongolia was under the Soviet Union and little was known about the people who Stalin tried to eliminate.

Trish_M profile image

Trish_M Hub Author 7 months ago

Hello Stessily :)

Thanks for reading and for your interesting comments!

I have a film about Chingis on DVD, which I am looking forward to watching ~ it may be that one.

I studied Ghengis / Chingis Khan and the Mongols as part of my History degree. It was the most unusual bit of my course and I thoroughly enjoyed it. But it was quite a long time ago and I have forgotten a lot of it, unfortunately.

I was really surprised when I saw the parallels with the Bible ~ especially as I have read Christian hubs, which seem to indicate that Chingis was the most evil man who ever lived.

John Wayne as Genghis Khan!? The mind boggles! :)

Trish_M profile image

Trish_M Hub Author 7 months ago

Hi again DomesticEngineers :)

Yes, I think that he was something of a mystery ~ as was ~ and still is ~ much of his homeland.

stessily profile image

stessily Level 8 Commenter 7 months ago

Trish: It was incredibly mind boggling to see John Wayne as Chingis. There are pictures on the internet; those stills are all that you need to see of that film, that had to be Howard Hughes' idea of a joke. I kept wanting John Wayne to say the Mongol equivalent of "Hey there, Pilgrim." :-)

I'll be interested to hear about the DVD you have. The film I saw, "Mongol", was beautifully filmed and really impressed me with Chingis' patience and resolve.

I also have heard that he epitomized evil, and that's part of the name calling which really turns me off to organized religion. I've never felt like jumping for joy, either, about Jezebel being fed to the dogs.

Once again, excellent presentation, Trish. Spotting those parallels is intriguing and comes from an open mind.

"Mysterious" is a good way to describe Chingis.

Trish_M profile image

Trish_M Hub Author 7 months ago

Thanks Stessily. :)

It's always good to receive your thoughtful and interesting comments!

I'll see if I can find that DVD ~ and those online photos of John Wayne!!!

Found this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsnWOyfMq4I

Wow!!! Mind boggles!!!

stessily profile image

stessily Level 8 Commenter 7 months ago

Trish: I just followed that link: Whoa, Pilgrim, that's no way to treat a woman! I'm surmising that Howard Hughes liked Jimmy Cagney and the grapefruit-in-the-face scene so much in "The Public Enemy" that he decided to have John Wayne show what a cad Chingis was by slapping a woman!

It's interesting that I found this hub by you t'other day cuz for some unknown reason for the last week scenes from "Mongol" have flitted through my imagination.

You may think that you have forgotten a lot since your student days but it looks to me as though you recalled and understood all the necessary details of Chingis' life for this hub.

I'll have to locate a DVD of "Mongol" to see again.

Re-read again and I voted again for everything including funny cuz some of our comments are amusing!

Kind regards, Stessily

Trish_M profile image

Trish_M Hub Author 7 months ago

Definitely! :) :)

And thank you, Stessily!

janesix profile image

janesix 7 months ago

Very interesting!

Trish_M profile image

Trish_M Hub Author 7 months ago

Thanks janesix :)

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